education gaps that we see, absolutely we do. but you don't do that with policies that strip away pell grants, that defund public education. you don't do that with policies that make it really difficult for students to get student loan or to close down opportunities for very qualified african american students to get in to college and universities and to more than survive it but to be great success. >> closing the gap, school choice being one of those that would help african americans and latinos, if parents would have their choice to be able to choose for their children what schools to go to instead of being stuck in the failed schools. >> and the -- >> wait, shy not have been given public money to send my son to private school. we need to support our public schools and improve the education that vast majority of children are getting in those public schools. >> but why not give -- >> do all colleges and universities use affirmative action, didn't uc system drop 'purpletive action and -- affirmative action and participate pans of